Greek myth - Ganymede
Jun. 1st, 2020 10:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sparklightI have thoughts that I need to get down.
This is less about Ganymede's relationship with Zeus (though it figures, of course), and more about his position and the reasons for him to have been given it. I notice a lot of vague assumption that the whole "cupbearer" thing is demeaning, not actually, like, a worthy position, and this is just... wrong?
You've firstly got the fact that Ganymede gets this position, not from some random nymph, but Zeus youngest daughter (it's a proper task for Hebe to have, as the youngest/an unmarried royal daughter!), which, I hope no one thinks that Hebe was being insulted and demeaned by performing this task! It's a position that requires loyalty and trust and is rather important.
Secondly, tying into the above, while the position is definitely mostly ceremonial and symbolic, since the (trusted!) function of a cupbearer is hardly something needed when it comes to immortal, divine beings, it's still important exactly because of the symbolic worth? Olympus mimics a human court, so maybe in some ways there's functions that are absolutely needed to be fulfilled. But even disregarding the symbol of it, in a human court at that time in history and for a long time forward, you give a position that deals with food/drink (especially drink, probably) to someone who's trusted - besides, the cupbearer of the king has a pretty unique access to the ruler.
Ganymede is a young, royal son; he gets a position that suits a youth of royal birth (since he is never going to grow older and marry).
On top of this... Like, look, as integral to the myth that the sexual/romantic elements have become and was from nearly the beginning, if you take Homer's apparently non-sexual version at face value, what you have is the gods taking the most beautiful mortal and installing him in a divine court. Why? Remember how the ancient Greeks considered physical beauty a marker of inner such? Moral goodness, etc? Ganymede's beauty isn't just a springboard off for patterning a divine version of that one particular ancient Greek custom (give the King of the Gods the best and prettiest young man, as is only suitable of course), but it's also proof of his worth of being among the gods, for his own sake.
I read some excerpts from some book while googling around a while ago, where the author pointed out that Troy in general and Ganymede's family/his father in particular, gets honour and glory from the fact that Ganymede is installed as Zeus' cupbearer, and, more to the point; the gods get honour and glory from this too, exactly because Ganymede is so pretty - inside and out.
As undeniably integral as the male/male relationship part of this myth is, it does have another side to it, which I think gives a lot more context and weight to the whole thing.
Version 2.0 below from Tumblr, though slightly different and not mentioning quite the same things:
I want to talk a little about Ganymede as cupbearer, and let’s put aside the sexual angle of it that became attached to the reason Ganymede was kidnapped. Not because it’s not my favourite take on it, in a positive spin, but because the letter of the oldest version(s) (The Iliad) we have mention no such thing, and it’ll be more straightforward for what I actually want to talk about.
“[..] and godlike Ganymedes who was the loveliest born of the race of mortals, and therefore the gods caught him away to themselves, to be Zeus' wine-pourer, for the sake of his beauty, so he might be among the immortals."
That’s what the Iliad has to say about Ganymede’s abduction. The gods. Ganymede is beautiful enough, godlike enough in that beauty, that he belongs among the immortals. That’s it. He can’t escape it even if not a single god ever expressed sexual interest in him!
"Verily wise Zeus carried off golden-haired Ganymedes because of his beauty, to be amongst the Deathless Ones and pour drink for the gods in the house of Zeus--a wonder to see--, honoured by all the immortals as he draws the red nectar from the golden bowl . . . deathless and unageing, even as the gods."
The Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite says this (there’s some argument that this, considering the context it’s used in, could be meant as romantic/sexual and thus be the first appearance of what became the dominant presentation later, but that’s argument only). He’s “honoured by all the immortals” because of how he fits in with them.
Ganymede is given his position because of his own worth [also refer to the various ideas of Ancient Greek philosophical thought of beauty = moral good], and it’s a position that comes with some prestige. He’s not just a “waiter”. A cupbearer was, for a very long time, a trusted position in a royal court. Hera/Juno is shown to be upset in some instances that Ganymede has been given Hebe’s position - she wouldn’t be upset if it wasn’t a position with some worth and prestige (even if Ganymede might otherwise be worthy of it).
Like, yes, even removing any sexual/romantic relationship with Zeus in this equation, Ganymede is kidnapped either way. That part can’t be gotten away from, because he apparently simply doesn’t belong on the mortal plane. But for his troubles, he’s given a position that very much suits a young, royal son, which honours both him and his earthly family and city, as well as the gods. Obviously Zeus gets the prettiest and best eromenos if he should have one at all, but the point is, Ganymede was bound for this either way. The gods (all of them) agree on that he belongs among them.
This is less about Ganymede's relationship with Zeus (though it figures, of course), and more about his position and the reasons for him to have been given it. I notice a lot of vague assumption that the whole "cupbearer" thing is demeaning, not actually, like, a worthy position, and this is just... wrong?
You've firstly got the fact that Ganymede gets this position, not from some random nymph, but Zeus youngest daughter (it's a proper task for Hebe to have, as the youngest/an unmarried royal daughter!), which, I hope no one thinks that Hebe was being insulted and demeaned by performing this task! It's a position that requires loyalty and trust and is rather important.
Secondly, tying into the above, while the position is definitely mostly ceremonial and symbolic, since the (trusted!) function of a cupbearer is hardly something needed when it comes to immortal, divine beings, it's still important exactly because of the symbolic worth? Olympus mimics a human court, so maybe in some ways there's functions that are absolutely needed to be fulfilled. But even disregarding the symbol of it, in a human court at that time in history and for a long time forward, you give a position that deals with food/drink (especially drink, probably) to someone who's trusted - besides, the cupbearer of the king has a pretty unique access to the ruler.
Ganymede is a young, royal son; he gets a position that suits a youth of royal birth (since he is never going to grow older and marry).
On top of this... Like, look, as integral to the myth that the sexual/romantic elements have become and was from nearly the beginning, if you take Homer's apparently non-sexual version at face value, what you have is the gods taking the most beautiful mortal and installing him in a divine court. Why? Remember how the ancient Greeks considered physical beauty a marker of inner such? Moral goodness, etc? Ganymede's beauty isn't just a springboard off for patterning a divine version of that one particular ancient Greek custom (give the King of the Gods the best and prettiest young man, as is only suitable of course), but it's also proof of his worth of being among the gods, for his own sake.
I read some excerpts from some book while googling around a while ago, where the author pointed out that Troy in general and Ganymede's family/his father in particular, gets honour and glory from the fact that Ganymede is installed as Zeus' cupbearer, and, more to the point; the gods get honour and glory from this too, exactly because Ganymede is so pretty - inside and out.
As undeniably integral as the male/male relationship part of this myth is, it does have another side to it, which I think gives a lot more context and weight to the whole thing.
Version 2.0 below from Tumblr, though slightly different and not mentioning quite the same things:
I want to talk a little about Ganymede as cupbearer, and let’s put aside the sexual angle of it that became attached to the reason Ganymede was kidnapped. Not because it’s not my favourite take on it, in a positive spin, but because the letter of the oldest version(s) (The Iliad) we have mention no such thing, and it’ll be more straightforward for what I actually want to talk about.
“[..] and godlike Ganymedes who was the loveliest born of the race of mortals, and therefore the gods caught him away to themselves, to be Zeus' wine-pourer, for the sake of his beauty, so he might be among the immortals."
That’s what the Iliad has to say about Ganymede’s abduction. The gods. Ganymede is beautiful enough, godlike enough in that beauty, that he belongs among the immortals. That’s it. He can’t escape it even if not a single god ever expressed sexual interest in him!
"Verily wise Zeus carried off golden-haired Ganymedes because of his beauty, to be amongst the Deathless Ones and pour drink for the gods in the house of Zeus--a wonder to see--, honoured by all the immortals as he draws the red nectar from the golden bowl . . . deathless and unageing, even as the gods."
The Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite says this (there’s some argument that this, considering the context it’s used in, could be meant as romantic/sexual and thus be the first appearance of what became the dominant presentation later, but that’s argument only). He’s “honoured by all the immortals” because of how he fits in with them.
Ganymede is given his position because of his own worth [also refer to the various ideas of Ancient Greek philosophical thought of beauty = moral good], and it’s a position that comes with some prestige. He’s not just a “waiter”. A cupbearer was, for a very long time, a trusted position in a royal court. Hera/Juno is shown to be upset in some instances that Ganymede has been given Hebe’s position - she wouldn’t be upset if it wasn’t a position with some worth and prestige (even if Ganymede might otherwise be worthy of it).
Like, yes, even removing any sexual/romantic relationship with Zeus in this equation, Ganymede is kidnapped either way. That part can’t be gotten away from, because he apparently simply doesn’t belong on the mortal plane. But for his troubles, he’s given a position that very much suits a young, royal son, which honours both him and his earthly family and city, as well as the gods. Obviously Zeus gets the prettiest and best eromenos if he should have one at all, but the point is, Ganymede was bound for this either way. The gods (all of them) agree on that he belongs among them.
